3.19.2011

JUDGMENT DAY, MAY 21, 2011? - HAROLD CAMPING'S PREDICTION & The UNTOLD STORY PART II

In the first column, we considered the sad history of Harold Camping that led to his departure from the church.  When the elders of the Alameda CRC censured Camping for his wild end time predictions, he refused to submit to their discipline. This facilitated a split in the Alameda CRC in which over forty percent of the congregation followed Camping and departed from the church. As we considered, pride and bitterness had so overcome Camping that he was able to declare that upon the year of his censure and departure from the church, God was done with the entire church, and from that time forward, God would only work in the “true believers” who were willing to take the stand with Camping and come out of the church.

In this column, we evaluate the fruits of Camping’s teaching.  We also address why predictions of the end world dangerous, and how Christians are to live in preparation for Christ’s return.
 

You Shall Know Them By Their Fruits
In Matthew 7:15-16, Jesus warned about false teachers who come to us in sheep’s clothing.  The marker by which Christ said we can identify them is their fruit. We can learn a lot about how false teachers operate when considering the fruit of Harold Camping’s life and teaching.

Rejection of the Church & Christ’s Rule
Harold Camping has called upon all Christians to abandon their churches, disregard the oversight of the elders, and reject the means of grace God put in place in the church to grant faith. To be sure, the most disturbing aspect to Camping’s teaching is his attack on the church.  What is the church? It is the body of Christ. Camping would have us believe that the risen Christ has not only set himself against his own body, but has also rejected the very body for which he died. One wonders how Camping’s view squares with Jesus’ direct condemnation of such a separation. Jesus said,  a kingdom divided against itself in this manner cannot stand (Matt. 12:25). How are believers to partake of the Lord’s Supper and “proclaim his death until he comes” if the church age ended in 1988 and the sacraments discontinued? The church is expressly called the pillar and the ground of the truth, meaning that over and against the very errors Camping is promoting outside of the church, the church is in fact the very place of safe haven the gospel is found and preserved (1 Tim. 3:15). 

Elders are set apart by God to protect the purity and doctrine of the church so that these kinds of gross errors do not occur. This requires humble submission and high esteem for those who labor to shepherd the church of God, since the elders will give an account for how the doctrinal purity of the church is maintained (Heb. 13:17).  To disregard this, is to directly disobey the commandment of God. In light of the history above, it is apparent that Camping in the business of “drawing away” disciples after him (Acts 20:30).  Historically, this has always been the mode of false teachers (see I John 2:19). Harold Camping rejected the discipline of the church in 1988, he left the church of Jesus Christ, and now to advance his own teachings, Camping speaks in a manner analogous to the Pope’s ex cathedra (from the throne) declarations which are to be received as equally as binding over people as Scripture.  Consider how far Camping has defected from the Belgic Confession, Art. 28 that he once swore to uphold as an elder:

We believe, since this holy congregation is an assembly of those who are saved, and outside of it there is no salvation, that no person of whatsoever state or condition he may be, ought to withdraw from it, content to be by himself; but that all men are in duty bound to join and unite themselves with it; maintaining the unity of the church, submitting themselves to the doctrine and disciples thereof; bowing their necks under the yoke of Jesus Christ; and as mutual members of the same body, serving to the edification of the brethren…Therefore all those who separate themselves from the same or do not join themselves to it, act contrary to the ordinance of God.”

Or, consider Proverbs 18:1, “A man who isolates himself seeks his own desire; he rages against all wise judgment.”

Another Gospel
Harold Camping claims that only the true believers will accept his prediction of when Christ will return and anyone who does not join with him in leaving the church is not saved.  In doing so, Camping has promoted a different gospel. In “No Man Knows the Day or the Hour?” Camping writes,

…the Day of Judgment coming to destroy those who deny that near the end of the world the true believers will know the time (the hour) of Christ coming…because destruction comes upon them, we can know for certain that these people are not saved…all of those in the world who on May 21, 2011 are still identified with any church.” 

Notice the threat in this statement, if you deny that Camping and his followers have the ability to know the hour of Christ's coming, and stubbornly remain in the church, you are not saved and will be destroyed. False prophets often employ intimidation and fear to hold people with their ridiculous interpretations of obscure points of doctrine.  In this connection, consider the one-for-one correspondence of Camping’s error to Diotrephes’ in 3 John,

I wrote to the church, but Diotrephes, who loves to have the preeminence among them, does not receive us. Therefore, if I come, I will call to mind his deeds which he does, prating against us with malicious words. And not content with that, he himself does not receive the brethren, and forbids those who wish to, putting them out of the church (3 John 1:9-10).

Camping’s outlandish views defy every rule of received Biblical interpretation and are based upon farfetched allegorical interpretations (see 2 Pet. 1:20) and new definitions of sin.  The unpardonable sin is refusing to leave the church. All this is based upon Camping’s own personal revelation of a timeline of history only made available in the last thirty-five years.  “True believers” are only those who leave the church and come to Camping himself. Christ warned against thieves and robbers who seek nothing more than to steal and destroy the sheep (John 10:10).  Camping has ended up promoting a false gospel, leading sheep to a different door, outside of the sheepfold of Jesus Christ.

Watch, Therefore? 
Harold Camping has attacked the mission and mandate of the church.  In Matthew 24, Jesus provides a series of signs that assure us of his second coming.  Jesus warned about those who would deceive with wild end time predictions and expectations that would lead many astray. Some will claim that they are Christ. Others will predict when Christ is coming. There will be political and economic chaos, wars, famines and earthquakes in various places. Jesus explained all of these things as signs that he is coming soon.  After describing these signs, Jesus assured believers that no one would be able to pinpoint any particular world event and declare that the end of the world would come.  Matthew 24:36 states, “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only…Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour that you do not expect. “ Why did Jesus condemn date setting? 

First, it delays repentance in the wicked.  How many Roman Catholics sought confession and absolution from priests in 999 AD on the eve of the new millenium?  The Lord never approved of delayed repentance; calls to repentance and faith were always today since one’s soul could be required of them this night (Luke 12:20). Second, predictions advance fear in weak Christians, especially children, and fear takes our eyes off the sovereign, all powerful risen Christ who is the Lord of history and author of our future. Jesus doesn’t want his sheep to fear (Luke 12:32).  Third, Jesus wants his people to always live in readiness for his coming at any moment.  In fact, the sign he encourages the church to be active with is the preaching of the gospel in all the world as a witness (Matt. 24:14). 

The worst possible “witness” to the world is demonstrated in what Camping has done and is doing. Just as in 1994, in months preceding May 21, 2011, Christians are again selling their homes and businesses and sending their money to Family Radio. When these predictions fail to happen, they do nothing but desensitize people to God’s serious warning of sudden destruction that will come upon those who do not believe (1 Thess. 5:3). 

We are called to be ready now. Martin Luther is known for saying, “If I believed the world were to end tomorrow, I would still plant a tree today.”  Luther understood that the most effective way of being ready is to have Christians remaining “steadfast, immovable, and always abounding in the work of the Lord” (1 Cor. 15:58).  Believers are called not  to bury their talents, nor hide their lights under a bowl, but to be about the work of the Lord as witnesses to the grace of Christ until he returns. If Christ actually chose to return on May 21, 2011 should it really affect what Christians are doing today? There is no good in being caught up in strange end time predictions, playing pin the tail on the antichrist, or linking  a major disaster with the end of the world? Our focus should be on the mission and mandate of Jesus Christ.
Christians are not to live in fear. Jesus Christ is our king, the Lord of history, and author of our future and salvation. Harold Camping has again exposed himself as a false teacher. One thing we can do is pray earnestly for his repentance and for those caught in his delusion that they might be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. Whether Christ returns today, May 21, 2011, or any day after, believers should always model what it means to have their waists girded and their lamps burning.

©All Rights Reserved. This article will be published in the April 6 Issue of Christian Renewal Magazine
RELATED: Office Hours: What the Bible Actually Says About the End Times
See Part One: Camping's Omnious History

85 comments:

  1. Rev. Brad LenznerMarch 19, 2011 at 9:11 AM

    Chris,

    Thank you for your diligence in so clearly refuting Camping's errors and tracing out his deadly fruits.

    The Head of the Church, our Lord Jesus Christ, is so good to his sheep by providing faithful shepherds to feed and protect his flock. I'm grateful to the Lord for ministers like you.

    Rev. Brad Lenzner
    Emmanuel URC
    Hanford, CA

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  2. If it seems slow, wait for it;
    it will surely come; it will not delay. Habakkuk 2:3

    Thank you again, Pastor,
    Ian

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  3. Well said Chris.
    Thank you

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  4. Thanks, Brad. I also thankful to hear of your good work in the Hanford church. Keep on preaching the gospel!

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  5. Dear Rev. Gordon,
    I found your articles on Camping very interesting. I am a minister of a Reformed Fellowship in Limerick, Ireland; and you've guessed it, Camping's posters are here too! Someone sent me an e-mail (always hard to know their genuineness) where Camping is still planning his broadcasting schedule AFTER May 21! and that Camping has not sold his house and other property.
    ALso, when I was in Seminary I wrote a paper for Ecclesiology, "Harold Camping Refuted: The Necessity of Membership in the Church Institute" (http://www.cprf.co.uk/articles/campingrefuted.htm).
    I thought you might be interested.
    Rev. Martyn McGeown (http://www.limerickreformed.com/)

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  6. Like Harold Camping, I have a degree in engineering.

    Unlike Harold Camping, I turn to the Book of Sudoku when I want to play with numbers.

    And in the meantime, I live with my lamp trimmed awaiting the midnight cry.

    Thanks for your faithful work, Pastor Gordon.

    Ian

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  7. Rev. Gordon, Thanks again for explaining to the layman. PEACE BH

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  8. Dear Rev. McGeown,
    I really appreciate your comments. Thanks for the insightful response. I can't believe Camping has Ireland covered. The hypocrisy involved here is shocking. I will certainly read your paper. May the Lord bless your labors in the gospel. Chris

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  9. Thanks again Chris, well said. It is amazing how important ecclesiology is even when talking about eschatology!

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  10. Thanks Mark, this is the main issue here, everyone seems to be caught up in the date issue, and, as bad as that is, the most destructive thing here is the repudiation of Christ's body, the church. How could anyone ever buy into that? Yes, the church is not in a good state today, but there are still many faithful churches out there preaching the gospel. The gates of hell shall not prevail!

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  11. Greetings, Rev. Gordon:

    I appreciate your posting thse two pieces. (HT: Heidelblog for link) I can speak with some authority here as I was converted to Christ via Camping's ministry in 1994, had listened to him on the radio quite often since 1989, and attended his church for a year, spending nearly every Tuesday night in his living room for a bible study.

    Your posts are gracious. I witnessed first hand the fallout of his predictions, plural, over my time there, and eventual church split (yes, another one) over his teachings.

    Just to clarify, Camping has changed his calculations and the meanings of the dates he has predicted. For instance, the May 1988 date was originally the end of God's salvation plan (no further salvation after that date, and Family Radio would become a comfort ministry as believers waited 6+ years for Christ to return) and the 2300 days between May 21, 1988 and Sept. 6, 1994 was the "final trubulation." He had all this predicted in the early 70's, but waited until 1992 to make it public. It was only later on when Camping realized he missed it yet again that he needed to tweak things from 2300 days to 23 years.

    Ironically, he later claimed that the '88 date was the end of the church, and that all pastors and deacons were under the influence of Satan. But he was an elder in a new church from '88 until much later after '94 (I forget when his church ceased being a church), so he retro-actively comdemns himself as under Satan's control and not even a believer!

    The reason why we're not told the time of the end appears numerous times in real life. People's sense of normalcy is upset. Students cram for finals at the last minute. Graphics departments work into the night to meet a deadline and make a mess for the janitor. With the winning run on 3rd, the infield and outfield are brought in, football teams throw long bombs with no huddle as they race against the clock. Basketball teams foul on purpose, and hockey teams abandon the goalie. The end has its own psychology, and it is more than evident in the goofiness of Camping's followers.

    Before leaving I confronted Camping several times, and he warned me upfront he would not listen to anything I said if it were about his predictions. He also thought his church to be in less need than any other church in the whole world. I'll never forget that quote. Anyhow, I had some good friends from his days, and almost without exception, those who were my friends left in the subsequent church split. God had mercy.

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  12. Dear Steve, I really appreciate your comments--they are quite helpful. They correlate with everything I learned and remember in my own research of Camping's history. I didn't have citational proof, but I know that Camping claimed that since he was silenced in the Alameda CRC, that silencing began the period of great tribulation that was to end in September of 94, though I doubt he later revealed this. As you state, "Ironically, he later claimed that the '88 date was the end of the church, and that all pastors and deacons were under the influence of Satan..." This is consistent with the "later" claim. I also know that the 40% of his group that departed from the Alameda CRC made a formal request of the consistory to begin a new CRC in the bay area which, of course, was subsequently denied. So this "new" church that you reference bespeaks a glaring inconsistency and hypocrisy. Thankful for the mercy God showed to you. Hopefully others will, as the apostle said, "come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will"(2 Timothy 2:26). Thanks again, Steve. Chris Gordon

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  13. pastor - how agonizingly sad that there is such blatantly false and distructive teaching from one who once had the truth - it is leading many over the cliff to their unfortunate distruction - advice: Read more Jonathan Edwards and less Harold Camping - your exposee was needed and timely - thanks for your devotion to shepherdship - watching after the flock- Jude1:4-"For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation".

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  14. Bear in mind this whole thing is win-win for Harold Camping.

    If he is right, well it must be because he is a true prophet.

    If he is wrong, and the Lord does not return on May 21, 2011, it is because he is a true prophet who's message lead to the repentance of the world. "When God saw what they did, how they turned from their evil way, God relented of the disaster that he had said he would do to them, and he did not do it", Jonah, 3:9.

    Why else does he call his May 21st campaign "Project Jonah" - see www.familyradio.com.

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  15. Harold Camping is known mainly for his failed prediction in 1994? which yes he did leave a little wiggle room. I think it would be useful for people to also realize he adjusted his predictions shortly after Sept. 1994, as if he just couldn't let it go. Here are two youtube clips that clearly show him in his own words predicting falsely for 12-25-94 and 4-3-96. God would never trust one of his most important messages with a man who has been wrong not once, but many times before. You can also see several more predictions he appears to have made at www.refutecamping.com. These two dates though have evidence and I'll post then now.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Pb-71pHbEVM

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMpE3kp8JN8&feature=player_embedded

    Jay

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  16. Rev. Gordon,

    Thanks for this. Your description of the irony of Camping's call for all "true believers" to leave God's church reminds me so strongly of C.S. Lewis's Perelandra. For those who haven't read it, it's an Eden allegory in which the "devil" character attempts to convince the "Eve" character that the only way for her to become truly herself, the person God wants her to be, she must understand that God secretly wants her to disobey His command.

    Fortunately, it doesn't work in the end, and the woman (with her entire race) is blessed by God.

    However, this drama does not take place without collateral damage: the devil character kills a lot of frogs.

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  17. Nice Blog sir;. Weather the Rapture is May 21st or any other day i hope to be caught up with the Lord on that day.

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  18. Dear Anonymous (3/22 8:00 PM), if Camping happens to "guess" right, none of us will care at that point :) If he is not, the burden of proof will remain to show how many sat in sackcloth and ashes for God to prolong his judgment upon the entire world. I haven't seen any real repentance, only confusion and dissalusionment. The emails I am receiving from these posts testify to this fact. Thanks for the comment.

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  19. Thanks, Jay. I knew there were many other predictions, but none of them were openly espoused as the 94 and 2011 predictions have been. I thought about compiling a list of these, but wanted to focus more on his sad history of when he was in the church and his departure. The predictions are bad, but his attack on the body of Christ is awful. Thanks for the observation.

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  20. Very interesting, Dana. Thanks for this. Nothing new under the sun. The devil uses the same old heresies with new packaging. We should learn by now.

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  21. I'm a different anonymous to the others - I'm in London - Camping is unheard of over here. I was interested to read that he's hit Ireland. As far as I am concerned he is a false prophet and a false teacher, and I just pray that this latest fiasco (I prophecy that the second coming will not be on May 21) will cause those deceived souls who follow him to see the light.

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  22. Thanks Pastor for all the info. I have had a few conversations with people down in So Cal about it. It amazes me how teachings like this always feed off of our sinful desire to be like God. Camping's pride in not submitting to the church has caused many others to feed on the sinful desires of the flesh which is to be like God. Our sinful nature craves to know the hidden things of God. We want to be in charge of our own destiny and make our own future or at least know the future. As you have said Pastor it is not our place to know when Christ will come again. It is God's and we have to be humble enough to accept that, believe that, and live that. Thanks again Pastor really good work

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  23. Pastor Gordon,

    I really appreciate and praise God for your dedication to the truth. May God bless your work for His kingdom here in Lynden and abroad.

    Mark.

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  24. When my husband and I married 10 years ago I had no idea how entrenched my husband was in Mr Campings teaching. Three years into our marriage he started telling me how he was listening to Camping and the hair on my neck stood up and I told him to stop listening to him. Needless to say, my husband left the church, causing my distress to myself and my children. I refused to leave our Bible believing/Bible teaching church. Now my husband believes the end will be on May 21. Thankfully he hasn't done anything rash, but at times the stress between us is difficult. I pray that Mr Camping and especially those who believe almost hypnotically in him, will have their eyes and ears opened to the truth. Thank you for the reseach and the fine article you wrote. As we wait for our Savior's return, may we continue to glorify Him alone!

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  25. Just curious if the Campinbgites no what timezone this is taking place in. I believe as of now the countdown is at 50 days until Camping's prophecy fails.

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  26. Dear Anon, thanks for your comments. I'm sorry to hear that your husband has fallen prey to Camping's errors. Has he read the article? May God grant your husband wisdom to see the error of his ways. I plan to publish a call to Campingites to repent and return to the church. You are right to lead your children and remain in a faithful church. Rememeber 1 Peter 3:1-2. Chris

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  27. This is a quote from Camping's book We Are Almost There.

    No one can be saved after FRIDAY May 21st 2011 eternal damnation, So in about 48 days we will know that Camping is a False Prophet.

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  28. I thought it would be a good idea to carry the WATER from over there to over here ! and I am HAPPY to do it !
    ...................................
    from :
    http://www.the-latter-rain.com/end-times-conclusion.html



    End-Times Study Conclusion


    Summary

    We have learned that throughout the Early Rain the churches failed to keep their eyes entirely on the Word of God with an attitude to be entirely obedient. God tolerated this and worked around it for nearly 2,000 years, but on May 22, 1988, He abandoned the church and began commanding the believers to come out of it.

    Satan was loosed on May 22, 1988, and the Great Tribulation was under way. God allowed Satan to come into the church and rule within it. This is a situation that will continue until the end. The first part of the Great Tribulation was a 2300-day period of silence in which very few people became saved.

    The second part of the Great Tribulation began on September 7, 1994. From that date till the Rapture on (most likely) May 21, 2011, the Latter Rain continues during which God is saving a great multitude of people outside of the churches. After the Rapture, the world will continue for a final five months in which God will pour out His wrath on this world before destroying it on (most likely) October 21, 2011.


    Time Clues

    If we were to look at only one or two of these time clues we might say, “Well, that’s just coincidence.” However, as we have looked at clue after clue we find that each one provides additional information that lines up perfectly with the conclusions from the other clues.

    The pieces of the puzzle fit together perfectly. Suppose we were to shift just one day of our timeline. When we examined the parallel between the Rapture and God shutting the door to the ark we discovered that we might expect the Rapture to occur on the seventeenth day of the second month. Suppose that day fell just a few days later on May 25 in 2011. If that were the case, then we would see our timeline start to fall apart. No longer would the Great Tribulation be exactly 23 years in length. No longer would it be exactly 8400 days. No longer would the final five months be exactly five months. No longer would the significant number 153 show itself in relation to the final five months.

    Likewise, suppose we discovered that the first day of the seventh month fell just a few days later in 1994 on September 12. No longer would we count back 2,300 days and land on the significant day of Pentecost. No longer would the Early Rain be exactly 1,955 years in length. No longer would the Great Tribulation be exactly 23 years or 8,400 days in length.

    You see, there’s no wiggle room here. Can all of this really be coincidence?

    Remember, all of this information came out of the Bible. We did not gather any information from a newspaper or history book. We did not think of the political world around us and look for how it might match up with the events described in the Bible. We kept our head in the Bible and developed everything from that one source.

    Now, because we are living in a day when God is revealing previously hidden truths to us we have to maintain an open approach to the Bible. We have to recognize that there may still be information that we are not yet aware of which may alter our conclusions thus far. However, we know we can expect that God will reveal when the end will occur and since the time clues we have examined all point to the same conclusions we can feel reasonably confident that we are on the right track.


    A Personal Note

    On a more personal note, I’m no better or smarter than anyone else. God’s command to leave the church has been in effect since 1988, but I did not leave until 2001 ........


    Printed Material also available

    revelation.chapter20.11@gmail.com

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  29. And just to finish.......

    because it took me that long to understand what God was saying. That means I spent 13 years of the Great Tribulation attending church like so many others. I didn’t realize all of what the Bible is teaching us in our day.

    This is why it is so important that we obey God’s command to warn the world. Believers need to hear this message so they can check it for themselves in the Bible. There is very little time left. It is my hope that this website will encourage others to dive quickly and diligently into the Word of God to discover the new truths God is revealing.


    Now once again because of the seriousness of this matter STUDY,STUDY
    STUDY THE MATTER FOR YOURSELVES.

    E MAIL ADDRESS

    revelation.chapter 20.11@gmail.com

    ReplyDelete
  30. AND ONE LAST THOUGHT FOR TODAY,THIS IS FOUND AT THE
    Time & judgment yahoo Bible study group
    Google it.............

    Do you see here in Matthew 23:15 that the scribes and Pharisees compassed sea and land making proselytes! They believed in their heart they were fulfilling the Great Commission! Yet because they were converting people to false gospels, they were in reality leading others to eternal death!

    So what false gospels are being taught in churches today?

    1) that God wants everyone to be saved and has made it possible for everyone to be saved if they want to and would only choose to be saved
    2) that people have the ability to “accept Christ” into their heart and initiate salvation
    3) that people have the ability to savingly believe on Christ prior to regeneration
    4) that saved people speak on unknown tongues, or have dreams or visions from God
    5) that baptism in water causes or contributes to salvation rather than simply being a sign or symbol
    6) that saying the “sinners prayer” will assist in or result in salvation
    7) that good works we do assist in or result in salvation rather than being a fruit of someone who was saved
    8) that our repentance assists in or results in salvation rather than being a fruit of someone who was saved
    9) that taking communion (Lord’s supper) assists in or results in salvation rather than simply being a sign or symbol
    10) that going to confession and doing acts of penance assist in or result in the forgiveness of sins rather than the work of Christ alone
    11) that the “gospel” has something to do with health, wealth or worldly prosperity rather than the spiritual issue of mankind being by nature sinners under the wrath of God and facing eternal death

    Unfortunately this list is just a very few of the false ideas being taught in ........YOU NEED TO STUDT THIS MATTER 1

    revelation.chapter20.11@gmail.com

    ReplyDelete
  31. The “QUESTION” most often asked………………………………

    No one knows when “CHRIST ” will come………is that really “TRUE”????

    LET ‘S READ THIS TOGETHER………………………………………….

    Unto the End of the World – 20-Nov-2009
    A THIEF IN THE NIGHT
    by Chris McCann
    www.ebiblefellowship.com/" target="_blank">www.ebiblefellowship.com

    Hello and welcome to “Unto the End,” a devotional that looks at Scripture with the thought constantly in mind that May 21, 2011 will be Judgment Day.

    We are going to take a look at a verse that we are hearing quite a bit about, which is 1 Thessalonians 5 and the reference to “a thief in the night.” It says in 1 Thessalonians 5:1-2:

    But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

    It is often said by individuals that hear about a date—a very exact date like May 21, 2011—that you cannot know. The belief is that we really should not even be trying to pinpoint a date, because the Bible tells us that Christ is coming “as a thief in the night.” If you ask them how a thief comes, they will go on to say, “Well, a thief comes unexpectedly; therefore, you can not know when a thief is coming.”

    They are actually correct that Jesus is coming “as a thief,” because the Bible tells us this. He is coming “as a thief in the night.” However, what many are failing to see or to understand is that if Jesus comes for you or me or anyone “as a thief,” He is not coming to hand out rewards or blessings or to give the gift of eternal life and to take people into Heaven. That is not why a thief comes.

    The Bible tells us the purpose that a thief has in mind in John 10:10:

    The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy…

    This is exactly what Jesus will do on May 21, which will be Judgment Day, a day when He will bring destruction, when the whole world and all of the unsaved people of the world will finally be destroyed; they will be killed eternally by the Lord Jesus Christ.

    This is what a thief does, but God is only coming “as a thief” for the unsaved of the world. He is not going to come “as a thief” for the true believer.

    This is why 1 Thessalonians 5: 3 goes on to say:

    For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them…

    Keep in mind that this is referring to the Lord coming “as a thief.” He is bringing “sudden destruction,” just as we read in John 10:10:

    The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy…

    Then we go on to read in 1 Thessalonians 5:3:

    …then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

    It is not good news if Jesus is coming for you “as a thief.”........



    http://www.ebiblefellowship.com/

    ……………………………………………………………………………………………

    …………………………………………………………………………………………….

    Judgment Day – May 21, 2011 Are “YOU “ sitting in sackcloth & ashes ? ebiblefellowship.com/ familyradio.com/ the-latter-rain.com/ “The purpose of this information is to inform you of the great urgency there now is in the world for each and every person to be reconciled to God…” Unto the End of the World ! revelation.chapter20.11@gmail.com

    & allabouttruth6@aol.com

    ReplyDelete
  32. Judgment Day – May 21, 2011 Are “YOU “ sitting in sackcloth & ashes ? ebiblefellowship.com/ familyradio.com/ the-latter-rain.com/ “The purpose of this information is to inform you of the great urgency there now is in the world for each and every person to be reconciled to God…” Unto the End of the World ! revelation.chapter20.11@gmail.com

    & allabouttruth6@aol.com

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  33. End-Times Study Conclusion


    Summary

    We have learned that throughout the Early Rain the churches failed to keep their eyes entirely on the Word of God with an attitude to be entirely obedient. God tolerated this and worked around it for nearly 2,000 years, but on May 22, 1988, He abandoned the church and began commanding the believers to come out of it.

    Satan was loosed on May 22, 1988, and the Great Tribulation was under way. God allowed Satan to come into the church and rule within it. This is a situation that will continue until the end. The first part of the Great Tribulation was a 2300-day period of silence in which very few people became saved.

    The second part of the Great Tribulation began on September 7, 1994. From that date till the Rapture on (most likely) May 21, 2011, the Latter Rain continues during which God is saving a great multitude of people outside of the churches. After the Rapture, the world will continue for a final five months in which God will pour out His wrath on this world before destroying it on (most likely) October 21, 2011.


    Time Clues

    If we were to look at only one or two of these time clues we might say, “Well, that’s just coincidence.” However, as we have looked at clue after clue we find that each one provides additional information that lines up perfectly with the conclusions from the other clues.

    The pieces of the puzzle fit together perfectly. Suppose we were to shift just one day of our timeline. When we examined the parallel between the Rapture and God shutting the door to the ark we discovered that we might expect the Rapture to occur on the seventeenth day of the second month. Suppose that day fell just a few days later on May 25 in 2011. If that were the case, then we would see our timeline start to fall apart. No longer would the Great Tribulation be exactly 23 years in length. No longer would it be exactly 8400 days. No longer would the final five months be exactly five months. No longer would the significant number 153 show itself in relation to the final five months.

    Likewise, suppose we discovered that the first day of the seventh month fell just a few days later in 1994 on September 12. No longer would we count back 2,300 days and land on the significant day of Pentecost. No longer would the Early Rain be exactly 1,955 years in length. No longer would the Great Tribulation be exactly 23 years or 8,400 days in length.

    You see, there’s no wiggle room here. Can all of this really be coincidence?

    Remember, all of this information came out of the Bible. We did not gather any information from a newspaper or history book. We did not think of the political world around us and look for how it might match up with the events described in the Bible. We kept our head in the Bible and developed everything from that one source.

    google ....e biblefellowship.com
    & the latterrain /may21 2011

    ReplyDelete
  34. Dear Revelation (a revelation of your name would also be helpful),

    Here is the summary I come up with reading though your comments: According to your leader Camping, unless I repent of not agreeing that Camping and his followers know the date of Christ's return, I will be lost. Forget that I have already repented of my sins, and trusted Christ's righteousness and submitted myself to his yoke. No, that is not enough. I must also abandon his body, reject his promises, and come to Camping. My answer to this? Galatians 1:8, "But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed." May the Lord grant you repentence to see the error of your ways.

    ReplyDelete
  35. So what timezone is this event taking place in.

    ReplyDelete
  36. The answer to your query can be found here..............

    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TimeandJudgment_May212011/

    A wise man's heart discerneth both time and judgment. Ecclesiastes 8:5

    EBiblefellowship(http://www.ebiblefellowship.com/)is a Christian internet ministry that has no affiliation with any church or denomiation because God has finished using the church to bring the gospel to the world. The Lord however, is sending out the gospel to the world outside of the churches and saving a great multitude of people

    Ralph

    ReplyDelete
  37. And now as Paul Harvey would have said ...
    Now let's hear the rest of the story !
    starting with # 5
    5- Many will use Mark 13:32 and Matthew 24:36 for there proof text that NO MAN can know the hour or day when the Lord will return.

    6- These verses are a testing program in the last days the seals are now open to the believer when we can understand what these verses mean. The "NO MAN" are reference to the unsaved man. Jesus said, MO MAN can come to me except the Father which draws him, John 6:44. We know now in, 1 Cor. 2:10-16, that only those that are truly born of the word and the Spirit will know time and judgment the "natural man" cannot know time and judgment these are the "no man knoweth" the spiritual man judges all things yet he is judged by NO MAN these verses declares this to be the case. So, the spiritual man is the only ones that will know time and judgment no man (unsaved natural man) cannot know, for it is all foolishness unto them, neither can they know them because they are spiritually void of the Spirit of God. 1 Cor. 2:14-16. However, the true believer has the mind of Christ. No man (unsaved man) can understand what this means because they are void empty of the Spirit, thus void.

    and will continue as time permits and the Good Pastor does not remove .
    Ralph ....and remember it's

    All About Truth !
    allabouttruth6@aol.com

    ReplyDelete
  38. and to continue.....to study !


    7- The spiritual man knows that the seals are now open as the Lord said He will open them when the time is at hand.

    "And He saith unto me, Seal NOT the saying of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand." Rev. 2:10.

    8- The unsaved has no understanding of what is taking place today so what they will do is scoff and mock, many want to be "willingly ignorant" as, 2 Peter 3:3-5, declares.

    9- Only the believers will know from the heart the hidden things of the Lord. The true gospel is hidden from those who are not saved, 2 Cor. 4:3-4

    10-The Lord has to give one repentance to even acknowledge these truth's, we cannot see truth unless God gives us the gift of repentance to see truth from the heart, 2 Tim. 2:25-26, If they do not see they will be held captive by Satan at his will as these verses declare. This is the time if any time to cry mightily out to God for His mercy, who can tell if He will leave a blessing behind? Psalm 51.

    Jesus tells us that the truth will set one free and His word is truth, John 17:17, the believers have faith in the word that May 21, 2011, will be the return of the Lord, the faith was given as a gift least any man should boast Eph. 2:8-9

    "By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith." Heb. 11:8

    True faith has substance to it.

    "Now Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." Heb. 12:1.

    The believer sees the return of the Lord May 21,2011.

    Ralph
    and remember it's
    All About Truth

    ReplyDelete
  39. and finally as we study and by the way this is from the time & judgment
    bile study group at yahoo.
    be sure to visit ................

    The believer sees the return of the Lord May 21, in the eyes of the faith of Christ, Eph. 2:16. This faith has an action and a substance to it, this is, to the point he or she will act upon this and warn the people that the sword of God's judgment will come May 21, believe it or not, scoff at this or not, ready or not, He will return, we know this by the faith of Christ for the true believer has the Spirit that revealeth these things in him as those things not seen we move with fear and trembling to warn the world to prepare to meet thy God! May 21, for the true believer, this is another biblical doctrine as the rapture of all the saints is a biblical doctrine.

    The wise men were looking for the Babe Jesus, they looked with an intense focus as the believers are today, 2 Peter 3:12. They were the wise men, and wise men still seek the Lord coming this time in power and great glory. Thank you. Gary. 1 John 3:13-15

    Ralph
    and remember it's ............
    All About Truth
    allabouttruth6@aol.com

    ReplyDelete
  40. Um that doesn't tell me anything. What timezone is this taking place in you do realize that May 21st here in the states is May 22nd in other places.

    ReplyDelete
  41. So wait a minute Matthew Chapter 24 verse 36 is a trap, You do realize that Matthew 24 verse 36 is Jesus telling his deciples and it was Jesus saying that No Man Knows the Day or the Hour no not the Angels in Heaven but my father only. That's Jesus talking. Anyone that is following Camping are scoffing at what Jesus said.

    ReplyDelete
  42. Hello Tom Nice to see you again,
    now as far a time zone head over to Time & judgment Bible study site your answer is there....the time zone is also there .not enough room here to add in .I urge both you and others to visit the other to really take this seriously you need to not continue what you have been taught by your church !................

    Cor. 2:10-16, that only those that are truly born of the word and the Spirit will know time and judgment the "natural man" cannot know time and judgment these are the "no man knoweth" the spiritual man judges all things yet he is judged by NO MAN these verses declares this to be the case. So, the spiritual man is the only ones that will know time and judgment no man (unsaved natural man) cannot know, for it is all foolishness unto them, neither can they know them because they are spiritually void of the Spirit of God. 1 Cor. 2:14-16. However, the true believer has the mind of Christ. No man (unsaved man) can understand what this means because they are void empty of the Spirit, thus void.

    Ralph
    and remember it's
    All About Truth
    allabouttruth6@aol.comenc

    ReplyDelete
  43. Ralph, you write, "you need to not continue what you have been taught by your church..." I can't imagine the devil himself saying anything different. Are you willing to address any of the points made in the article? Did the Lord command us to observe the sacraments until he comes? Care to comment? Should Christ reject the body for which he dies? Care to comment? Should we follow the teachings of a man who blatantly disregarded Christ's spiritual authority in the church? Care to comment? Finally, as our Reformed fathers confessed, there is no salvation outside of the church of Jesus Christ. Departing from the church, you have cast yourself into the realm of darkness which lies under the sway of the devil. Those who are able to discern time and judgment do not do such things to their souls. Chris

    ReplyDelete
  44. Hello Chris ......what is the church is it not the "BODY OF BELIEVERS" please think this through there is a catholic church, a baptist church ,a methodist church and on and on and on , all using the same Bible ....correct ....yet all have come up with different doctrine correct ?But there is only one Bible .
    Now how can that be the truth is not in a church teaching if it is so ...then Chris WHICH ONE ???
    IS IT YOURS ? IS IT THE CATHOLIC ?
    IS IT THE ...AND ON ,AND ON ,AND ON .mY SUGGESTION IS TO STUDY THE BIBLE AND THE BIBLE ALONE TO FIND TRUTH .Now I can not open your eyes and ears But God Can ,so I do suggest that perhaps you consider what you learned from you church
    maybe "NOT SO CORRECT "AND TAKE THE TIME TO RETHINK YOU POSITION...S
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YRT0MkSNfI

    John 8:45 And because I tell [you] the truth, ye believe me not.

    “And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and [so] that day come upon you unawares (G160). For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.” (Luke 21:34-35 AV)

    1 Thessalonians 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden (G160) destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
    Louis....from TimeandJudgment_May212011 · Discerning Time & Judgment: May 21 2011

    BY THE WAY ...Chris if you have the TRUTH at your church then that means all other church's are in error correct ?
    ................................
    A wise man's heart discerneth both time and judgment. Ecclesiastes 8:5
    ..............................



    Ralph
    and remember it's


    All About Truth !

    ReplyDelete
  45. Greetings ............again I urge you Chris and others to re -study and re think what you have been taught by your Church,and for the record I was raised Catholic But by God's mercy he found me a sinner ...a big sinner it seems as though I was hit up the side of the head,turned around on that one way street and re directed to go the "RIGHT " way down that one way street ..........it was nothing that I did .
    from the T & J site ...take a minute to visit order yourself a pizza sit back in your chair and read ,study and think ....

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=poOL3KK9EQE

    “But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; And shall begin to smite [his] fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken; The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for [him], and in an hour that he is not aware of, And shall cut him asunder, and appoint [him] his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” (Matthew 24:48-51 AV)


    Louis...again T& J

    Ralph Be back later time to eat.

    and remember it's

    All About Truth !

    ReplyDelete
  46. Again i looked at the Time and Judgement site and it gives no time or timezone for when and where May 21st will happen. Just tell me the exact timezone and not just the date of when this will
    happen. Don't you realize that we don't live in the same place
    geograpgically for it to be worldwide. Camping clearly denies God Word. He is scoffing at Christ's words in Matthew and everything that has to happen in the Great Tribulation. The Great Tribulation is a literal event described in the Bible in Matthew and Revelations it's not an event that is understood spiritually.

    ReplyDelete
  47. Hello TWF.....what a name are you ?

    FYI...at noon in Jerusalem it is may 21 on every piece of ground world wide ,some just starting the day others coming to the end ......also the date may 21 starts the day in NEW Zealand then travels west >the big earthquake will start there and will travel west throwing the graves open as it travels .
    this info is available at the site T & J .....I will make a request for you to join ....but give me a better name something not so ????
    I will open for you an e mail account and post it here with a password ,that you can change when you log in....that way you will be copied in on everything........I will spend the time to do this since I think that you seem to get frustrated as I do sometimes .
    Now Chris ...I will spend some time for you and address your comments a bit at at time so just be patient .my question is though are you a free will gospel ?

    Ralph
    and remember it's
    All About Truth

    ReplyDelete
  48. WE CAN KNOW
    May 21, 2011
    is Judgment Day!

    Upon hearing the information that May 21, 2011 is Judgment Day, many in the churches immediately refer to a Bible verse such as:

    Matthew 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

    “You see,” they say after quoting this verse, “the Bible tells us that no man can know.” They might even add, “Not even Jesus Himself knows the time; therefore, your date of May 21 is all wrong.” As is often the case after quickly making this statement and dismissing the information regarding the date of the end of the world, this individual will go on his or her way content that this will never happen. “After all,” they think, “the Bible says we cannot know the timing of the end.”

    Of course, we do acknowledge that the Bible has this verse within it. However, the question is: does the rest of the Bible support the idea that we cannot know the timing of the end of the world? Or, is there more information in the Bible that would allow for God’s people to learn the date of the end of the world?

    First of all, we need to quickly mention that Jesus Christ is God Almighty. And since Jesus is Almighty God, there can be no question that He knows when the end of the world will be.

    Job 24:1 …times are not hidden from the Almighty…

    The purpose of this pamphlet is to show from the Bible that since we have now reached the last days of earth’s history, it is (and always has been) God’s plan to reveal information from the Bible concerning the end of the world, including its exact timing. For instance, we see this idea in the following passage of Scripture:

    Daniel 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

    to continue

    ReplyDelete
  49. Alright here is 2nd Peter Cha[pter 3 verses 3-10

    Verse 3
    There shall come in the last days scoffers walking after there own lusts. Camping clearly scoffs at Matthew 24 verse 36. Which clearly teaches that No Man Knows the Day or the Hour.

    Verse 4
    Amd saying where is the promise he has for since the father has fallen asleep things are the same since the beginning of creation.

    Verse 5
    For those who were willingly ignorant That by the word of God that the heavens were of old and the world standing outside of the water.

    Verse 6
    Whereby the world that was overflowed by water perished.

    Verse 7
    But the heavens which are now by the same word was reserved unto fire against the day of judgement of Ungodly Men.

    Verse 8
    But beloved be not ignorant of one thing that WITH THE LORD. A Day is as a thousand years and a thousand years is as one day.

    Verse 9
    The Lord is not slack concerning his promise as some count slackness
    but is longsuffering unward not willing that any one should perish but that all should come to repentence.

    Verse 10
    But the Kingdom of God shall come as a theif in the night. The heaven shall pass away with a great noise and the elements shall melt in fervant heat and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
    www.kingjamesbible.com

    ReplyDelete
  50. WE CAN KNOW
    May 21, 2011
    is Judgment Day!

    Upon hearing the information that May 21, 2011 is Judgment Day, many in the churches immediately refer to a Bible verse such as:

    Matthew 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

    “You see,” they say after quoting this verse, “the Bible tells us that no man can know.” They might even add, “Not even Jesus Himself knows the time; therefore, your date of May 21 is all wrong.” As is often the case after quickly making this statement and dismissing the information regarding the date of the end of the world, this individual will go on his or her way content that this will never happen. “After all,” they think, “the Bible says we cannot know the timing of the end.”

    Of course, we do acknowledge that the Bible has this verse within it. However, the question is: does the rest of the Bible support the idea that we cannot know the timing of the end of the world? Or, is there more information in the Bible that would allow for God’s people to learn the date of the end of the world?

    First of all, we need to quickly mention that Jesus Christ is God Almighty. And since Jesus is Almighty God, there can be no question that He knows when the end of the world will be.

    Job 24:1 …times are not hidden from the Almighty…

    The purpose of this pamphlet is to show from the Bible that since we have now reached the last days of earth’s history, it is (and always has been) God’s plan to reveal information from the Bible concerning the end of the world, including its exact timing. For instance, we see this idea in the following passage of Scripture:

    Daniel 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

    to continue

    ReplyDelete
  51. hold onto this verse ...Verse 10
    But the Kingdom of God shall come as a theif in the night. The heaven shall pass away with a great noise and the elements shall melt in fervant heat and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
    www.kingjamesbible.com

    April 5, 2011 3:34 PM

    to continue
    do you want me to join you in ?

    ReplyDelete
  52. Alright here's another one

    Job Chapter 24 Verse 1
    Why seeing times are not hidden from the Almighty. Do they that know him not see his days.?
    www.kingjamesbible.com

    ReplyDelete
  53. Here's one more

    Ecclsieates Chapter 8 Verse 5
    Whoso keepeth the commandmants will feel no evil things. And A Wise Man's Heart can disceneth both Time and Judgement.

    ReplyDelete
  54. For all Campingite people that are responding i have a verse for you.

    Isiah Chapter 42 verse 8
    I am the LORD that is my name my glory will i not give to another nor my praise to a graven image.

    I want you to read this verse and ask yourself this. If Christ returns on May 21st who does the Glory really go to does it go to Christ or does it go to your GOD Harold Camping.

    ReplyDelete
  55. Hello again...I was on my way elsewhere but had a thought....we read ....1THESSALONIANS chapterv 5

    Chapter 5

    [

    1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
    2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
    3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
    4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
    5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
    6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
    7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
    8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
    9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

    the questions chapter 3 who are them ? destruction cometh upon them,



    chapter 4 & 5......
    But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
    5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

    question ..who are the
    But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
    5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

    question ..who are the
    But ye,

    be back later
    Chris ...areb you a free will church what are your church beliefs I did not see them posted ????

    ReplyDelete
  56. Here's another one

    Revelations Chapter 3 Verse 11
    Behold i come quickly hold that fast which thou hast that no one takes thy crown.

    ReplyDelete
  57. Here's a couple verses

    1st Thess Chapter 5 verse 1
    But of the Times and Seasons brethren ye have no need as i write unto you.

    Compare it with this one

    Acts Chapter 1 Verse 7
    And he said unto them it is not for you to no times and seasons that the lord hath in his power.

    ReplyDelete
  58. Ralph
    You actually bring up a good point that i'd like to expound upon. Who is really crying Peace and Safety. Ask yourself this Obviously he believes that he has been given the Biblical Timeline with Judgement Day starting on May 21st so what if it doesn't begin on that day as you say sudden destruction may likely come upon you just like other Religious Cults of the past.

    ReplyDelete
  59. Hello......It seems as though someone keeps removing my posts..H"MMM

    In any event when a discussion breaks down and names and sarcastic
    remarks are made it' is best to just walk away .But I will leave these for all to ponder !
    ................................
    Can We Know When?





    For as long as most of us can remember, we have always been taught that no one can know when the world will end. God has crafted the Bible very carefully to hide information concerning the timing of the end. We have to remember that the Bible tells us that certain information in the Bible has been concealed so that mankind could not understand it until right near the end of the world:
    “And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things? And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.” (Daniel 12:8-9)

    Now we have reached the time when God is removing the seal from this information in the Bible (see God Is Revealing The End).









    )

    ReplyDelete
  60. Coming As A Thief In The Night (1 Thessalonians 5:2-6)

    Almost anyone who grew up in the church, myself included, remembers being told over and over that Christ’s coming will be like a thief in the night. In other words, no one can know when His coming will occur. One place we read about this is in First Thessalonians 5:2-6 so let’s examine this passage verse-by-verse:

    2“For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.”
    Here we have that frequently-quoted statement. I can remember hearing this over and over.

    3”For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.”
    Teachers in the past have always used this as proof that people will be caught off-guard by Christ’s coming. It is true that this verse is teaching that, but that’s not the whole story…

    4“But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.”
    Here we discover that there are some people who will not be caught off-guard by Christ’s second coming. We have all been taught time and time again that Christ’s coming will be like a thief in the night, but here we have a clear statement (at least, it’s clear to us now) that it will not come as thief for some people.

    5“Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.”
    The light of the world is Christ (John 8:12). Therefore, the children of light are the believers. They are the ones God is addressing here.

    6”Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.”
    So we learn that those who will not be caught off-guard are those who are not “sleeping,” those who are watching. This does not mean those who are watching will simply know that Christ’s coming must be getting close. According to a recent study, about one-third of the world’s population calls itself Christian.1 Another study indicates that 85% of professing Christians believe the end of the world is near2 so there are about 2 billion people who think we are living in the end times. How many more non-Christians believe the end of the world is near for one reason or another? The point is, a very large percentage of this world’s population recognizes the end is near. This large percentage is not the group of people God is referring to when He says the end will not come as a thief in the night for some. In fact, in Revelation chapters 2 and 3 God is specifically addressing just the churches, just those who claim to be His people, and there He says that if they don’t watch then He will come as a thief in the night to them:
    “Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.” (Revelation 3:3)
    The setting of those chapters is one of caution (see Study on The Seven Churches). This is a warning God has placed in the Bible that really applies to us today because we are living in the time about which this warning is given.

    We find another statement in Mark reminding us to watch and not sleep:
    “Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning: Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping. And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.” (Mark 13:35-37)
    We will see that those who are “sleeping” are not those out in the world who want nothing to do with God, but they are those in the Christian community who continue to hold the belief that we can’t know when the end will occur. God defines "sleeping" as not having spiritual eyes opened to understand the truth:

    ReplyDelete
  61. And finally ........

    "What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded. (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day." (Romans 11:7-8)











    When we study Second Thessalonians chapter 2 (see Study on The Antichrist) we realize that as a result of the churches' desire to cling to their doctrines without continually re-examining them, God sends them strong delusion to keep them in their lies:
    "And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie" (2 Thessalonians 2:10-11)
    We find another passage in Isaiah that reminds us that sometimes spiritual blindness ("sleeping") is a result of God's judgment:
    "For the LORD hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath he covered. And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed" (Isaiah 29:10-11)


    We are being taught here that we can know enough about the timing of the end that it will not come unexpectedly if we are watching. How do we watch? Do we go stand on a hilltop and look at the sky? No, of course not. We aren’t going to find any information in the sky about when to expect Christ’s return so that it does not come as a thief in the night. We watch by studying God’s Word very carefully. That is the only way we can obtain any information about what to expect and when.

    The Bible teaches that if we don’t watch, then yes it is true that the Rapture will come as a thief in the night:
    “Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.” (Revelation 3:3)
    In other words, Christ will come as a thief in the night unless we are watching. This is how we know that watching means to study the Bible and learn the timing of the end.

    The Bible does actually teach that we are to be studying time:
    “Whoso keepeth the commandment shall feel no evil thing: and a wise man's heart discerneth both time and judgment.” (Ecclesiastes 8:5)

    and as they say

    Good night and I do hope that what I have left here will be of some help !
    Ralph
    and remember it's

    All About Truth

    ReplyDelete
  62. Chris ...since you chose not to answer the question about "FREE WILL"
    I thought I would leave you with this ............................

    What About Free Will?
    What Is Saving Faith?
    Faith Without Works
    The Age of Accountability
    Rewards In Heaven

    6. Final Thoughts
    How Are We To Witness?
    Conclusion What About Free Will?






    Now that we have spent some time looking at many of the verses that map out God's salvation plan we should take a moment to address the verses that are often pointed to in support of a free-will salvation program. After all, these verses are also part of God's Word and any doctrine we are going to hold as truth must be able to harmonize with the entire Bible.






    Joshua 24:14-15
    "Now therefore fear the LORD, and serve him in sincerity and in truth: and put away the gods which your fathers served on the other side of the flood, and in Egypt; and serve ye the Lord. And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD."

    Sometimes the statement, "choose you this day whom ye will serve," is isolated from this passage to provide support for the idea that we can choose to serve God. But notice, where does the choice lie? Is it between God and some other god? No. This passage is acknowledging that when we aren't saved we do have the option to follow this false gospel or that one. If we have no interest in Christ, we can choose to devote our life to our career by being a workaholic or we can spend all of our time playing video games. However, it does not teach that we have free will in salvation.


    John 1:12
    "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:"

    When skimmed over, this verse does seem to imply that God is holding out the free gift of salvation and if we want it all we have to do is go receive it. However, we know that doesn't square with what the rest of the Bible teaches so we must study this verse a little more carefully.

    There are two ways by which we can receive something: actively or passively. To illustrate this, suppose you are sitting in a chair on one side of the room. On the other side of the room is a table full of gifts. One way you could receive a gift is if you were to get up, walk over to the other side of the room, pick up a gift, and walk back to your seat. That would be an example of actively receiving a gift. However, suppose you remained seated in the chair and someone were to bring a gift from the table and set it in your lap. Then you have passively received that gift.

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  63. You are the recipient of that gift based on no action of your own.

    So with this in mind we turn elsewhere in the Bible to let Scripture interpret Scripture. How is it that we receive the gift of salvation? We discover that we receive this gift passively:
    "John answers and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven." (John 3:27)

    In fact, John 1:12 is not even a complete thought. The second half of the sentence is located in verse 13 and when we put them together we get a clearer picture of this:
    "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name, which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."
    Our salvation is not based on our will but on God's.





    Second Peter 1:10
    "Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fail."

    This is similar to the statement we find in Second Corinthians 3:5: "Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith." God is telling us to not take our salvation for granted. Just because you felt really spiritual at some point, or just because you faithfully went to church, or just because your parents loved the Lord, or just because you were baptized in water, or whatever... don't put your trust in that. God gives us principles to help us know if we really are saved:
    "He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him." (1 John 2:4)






    Second Peter 3:9
    "The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is long-suffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."

    Second Peter chapter 3 is dealing with the ungodliness of the world in the last days (2 Peter 3:3). God is writing here to the brethren; that is, the elect. As the world dives deeper and deeper into sin it will displease God more and more. God will, in a sense, be suffering. God, being Absolute Ruler, could just end the world so He would no longer have to witness His creation plunge further into rebellion against Him. However, if He were to do this, then there would be certain individuals whom God had planned to save that would not be able to come to repentance if the world were to end sooner than God originally planned. This would frustrate God's election program and He would lose some of His elect.

    God is not going to allow that to happen. He is going to suffer the anguish of watching mankind follow Satan and we are told He is enduring this for the sake of the elect because He is not willing that any of them should perish. That is how much God loves us.






    First Timothy 2:4
    "Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth."

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  64. Last post .............

    s we learned earlier, the "all" in First Timothy 2:4 is conditioned by the context and is referring to all of His elect (see Study on Christ Died For The Elect). Incidentally, when God wishes that all men would be saved we must also understand that God takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked (Ezekiel 18:32), but this does not mean that He has made provision for every single human being so that everyone can be saved.






    Revelation 3:20
    "Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hears my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me."

    This verse is not teaching that Christ has done all that He can and now it's just up to us to accept Him. The verse says, "If any man hears my voice," and if we pick up the context of the passage we will read in verse 22, "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches."

    You see, the only ones who can hear His voice are those who have been given ears to hear. The Gospel call goes out but only those with spiritual ears to hear will respond. Please see the Study on the Raising of Lazarus for a wonderful illustration of this.

    and to all A good night !

    Ralph
    and remember it's
    All About Truth

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  65. Ralph, my views are not on trial, but yours are. I have never once removed one of your posts. I am Reformed and deny the free will doctrines as Arminians define it. If you were familiar with Reformed views, you would know that there are three marks which define a true church. You have defected from all three and are considered by the Bible to be apostate (departed from the church). I wrote these articles because I care about people like you who have been deceived by a false teacher. I hope you see this as a warning done out of love. As a minister of the gospel, I call you to return to a true church and bow you knee under the yoke of Christ. I have asked you numerous questions regarding the issues of the article, questions you repeatedly ignore. If you are going to interact on this blog, I expect serious engagement of the subject matter and not ridiculous ad hominems. If the Lord stays us beyond May 22, I expect you to return to this blog and offer sincere repentence, if you will not do it this night. Chris

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  66. Alright what i'm about to say may be a tiny bit controversial but i have done research to back it up. The Rapture is a False Doctrine made famous in the 19th century made up by John Nelson Darby and Cyrus Scofield. The Protestants which is what Camping is jumped on board with this idea because they want to escape the terror of rhe Tribulation. The Rapture also comes from a common misinterpertation of 1 Thessalonians Chapter 4 verse 17 where it says that we will meet god in the air. It does not mean that we will be sucked up in a Heavenly Vaccum Cleaner or just randomly taken away while every atheiest and Non Believer are left we will be here for at least the first 3 years of the Tribulation but will be taken out before it gets really bad.

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  67. For all you Campingites that think that the Bible no longer condones Baptisim i've got this verse.

    Acts Chapter 2 Verse 38
    Then Peter said unto them Repent and be Baptised ALL OF YOU in the name of Jesus Christ for the REMISSION of Sin and ye shall recieve the gift of the Holy Ghost.

    Now where's the only place to get baptised is where,?

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  68. I did some research and found this interesting and i think it proves that Camping's calculations are off.

    April 1st 33 AD is not 722.500 days from May 21st 2011 but actually if you do the calculations April 1 33 AD is actually 722.500 days from May 20th 2011 want proof do it yourself through this site.

    www.nasa.gov/julian,html

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  69. Chris
    I see your having troubles with our Campingite friends as well i've been trying to find out what timezone this is taking place in but they say the timezone doesn't matter.

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  70. Thanks for the posts WF,
    You know the more and more I think about this, Camping said after 1994, even though he was wrong, how beneficial his prediction was to prepare people for Christ's coming. I think he's not really sure, but has been overtly dogmatic with the belief that what he is doing is preparing the world for judgment day. So, even if he is wrong again, he believes he has done a great service for Christ in warning and scaring unbelievers. The lesser of two evils mentality. My guess is this will come out after May 21 and he will say something similar. Chris

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  71. Every Day is Judgement Day for someone or maybe a lot of people so Camping could be partially right anyway it could even be his own Judgement Day.

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  72. I am the wife of of the husband who has been following Camping for 10 years. The one thing I find with those who follow Camping is that they quote the same Scriptures with the same interpertation as he. Why refer to his website when Gods word speaks so clearly. Aren't we supposed to take the full council of the Bible. Why waste your time proving the Lord's return on a certain date when their are still widows and orphans that need help. Is it just to prove you know something others don't? I don't care when Christ returns, mine and everyone elses focus should be being about the work of the Lord! And what is that work? Preaching the Gospel and caring for the widows and orphans! Deny yourself and pick up your cross. Use the talents the Lord has given you to further His kingdom. Stop telling people they are going to hell because they know a false teacher and refuse to follow this man or any man! Work out your salvation with fear and trembling!

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  73. Amen Annonymous Woman. Camping does not truly believe in Christ or else he wouldn't set dates and go against Scripture as much as he does. Hopefully May 21 coming and passing will wake these people up.

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  74. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  75. Thank you for the post. Very good analysis and critique. I'm a Catholic seminarian and we've been out of the "dating/chronology" business for a long time... so no one really pays much attention to Camping. I do only because my brother is a Camping follower. It's been a hard journey in many ways. I invited my brother to read Saint Augustine's commentaries on Genesis starting on May 22nd... he said he'd be interested, but he doesn't think that day will come.

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  76. Dear Rev. Gordon,
    I found this superb response to Harold Camping on Answers in Genesis.

    http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/2011/04/15/feedback-can-we-know

    Rev. Martyn McGeown
    Limerick Reformed Fellowship, Ireland

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  77. Dear Anonymous Husband,
    You said:
    "Stop telling people they are going to hell because they know a false teacher"

    Can you tell me whether 'knowing' a false teacher means the same thing to you as 'believing' a false teacher?

    There are several other commenters who have said they KNOW or have known Camping, and who refute his teachings as false.

    Are you telling Pastor Gordon not to warn believers against false teachers? If I, as a Christian, nevertheless took the false teachings of Camping as true, I would be disbelieving God and would therefore be guilty of the worst kind of sin. I would hope a faithful shepherd would warn me that I was in danger of hell.

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  78. LOL. "pin the tail on the antichrist". I was doing that last night.

    Did you hear about that Indian guy that was on TV and... oh, nevermind.

    What you say about fear is so true. One of my particular weakness is fear. God told me about it years ago and we're working on it.

    As I did some research on Judgement Day, the antichrist, etc I became fearful.

    Your statment, "Believers are called not to bury their talents, nor hide their lights under a bowl, but to be about the work of the Lord as witnesses to the grace of Christ until he returns." Really spoke to me.

    I've been persuing a direction that I belive the Lord is leading me in. It requires me to make some plans for the future; apply to a school, take the courses, do the homework and start over in a new career. The ideas about bury my talents and being about the Lord work, regardless of what he called you to, has often been on my mind.

    As I was surfing last night, I started to think, "Well, if the world is ending in a few years, what's the point? Maybe I shouldn't apply to that program and maybe I should start preaching more." Although that's not what the Lord has called me to.

    On my site, www.judgmentdaytruth.com, I'm trying to counter the false teachings of Harold Camping, yet I fell victim to the fear that teaching can produce.

    Pastor Chris, you have been a blessing to me. Thank you so much.

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  79. Peace be with the reader.

    The Son of man will not return on the 21st may 2011 for the simple reason that he is already here.

    The Faithful Witness

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  80. Thank you Martyn, for your link and good work to also warn of his destructive teachings.

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  81. To Susan. I wasn't saying this dear brother shouldn't stop warning the sheep. I merely meant that Campings followers are telling people they are going to hell if they don't believe the Lord is returning that day. I know that first hand because my dear husband has told me numerous times thats where I was going. Sorry for the miscommunication.

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  82. sir,
    good day!
    i need ur help so badly. do you have any information about the "RH Bill" or reproductive health bill? i've heard this first in an american cartoon show in tittled the "the family Guy". i never expect that our government will implement it seriously as a rule in our country which make it a huge argument among us. i've heard some rumours that there are some unknown investors that manipulated our president here in the Philippines.
    pls share me some information about population control and the people behind it. i've heard it first( the RH bill ) from your country in a cartoon show
    i hope you can give me some insight. thanks and i'll remember this as a favor. God bless!
    pro life!!!

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  83. 9:45 PM, May 21, 2011 My husband and I will attend church tomorrow morning and evening. And we will Lord willing till the day the Lord returns or we are called home. I can't help but wonder what the Camping Cult has planned for their next move. I pray for their repentance. Mr. Camping is one of the end times prophets the Bible warns us about. I pray that people will use the Bible for what it was intended, to lead us to salvation and to show us how to henceforth live a life of gratitude. Thank you Pastor Gordon for your work....Evelyn

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  84. Camping was designed by the apostate churches to keep people from seeing the truth of their freemason liar pastors. Most churhces have fallen away and the people in them are so far from God that they cannot even see it. When antichrist comes they will bow because they have fallen prey to the delusion. You are blinded by your phony politics and materialism. You are wrapped in in the Superb Owl (Super Bowl), Christmas, halloween and other pagan ungodly lies of the devil.

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